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General Chat
1148 posts | Last Activity on 16-06-2024 14:03 by AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 16-06-2024 14:03, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
[quote name=pixie post=5606]@pixie [/quote] In the meantime, when I talk about OS 3.9, I'm talking about update (3.9 is not an OS but only an update of OS 3.5), then if we have to speak from theories or hearsay, that's one thing, but if we have to talk about practicality, we have to prove it with facts! Native" OS3.9 applications will never work on OS3.1, when you run them, a request will say that you must have OS 3.9 or its libraries. Have you ever taken a look at the OS3.9 startup-sequence? Have you ever noticed the "Amiga ROM Update", have you ever looked at what's in the Classes folder without these components no "native" OS 3.9 application can run on OS 3.1. Have you ever noticed that OS 3.1 has all the System Application GUI's (e.g. screenmode, WBpattern, Locale etc..) are static and you can't adjust their width, the Icons management with the new Tooltypes Options, the new more advanced Shell, the Datatypes Descriptors that allow you to associate any file, with OS3.1 you can add as many Aminet Pachs as you want, the system will bloat and lose stability and you will never be able to install AfA OS or other enhancements created for OS 3.9. If by Amiga OS you mean a system devoid of everything 4-coloured, where no files are associated, where no Media can be run then there is no point in continuing the discussion, everyone keep their own thoughts and let's close the discussion here.
Responded in MOS Ambient
pixie
pixie 16-06-2024 11:06, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
[quote name=OlafSch post=5611]@OlafSch - @Pixie How much is your experience on Scalos? It does not sound like having very much[/quote] The builds I tried had a lot of glitches so I never hanged out much... I bet regular user will, just because... [quote name=OlafSch post=5611]I did more with Magellan in the past but currently I do more with Scalos.. Most you can do with Magellan, you can also do with Scalos, but different. On 68k I can extend aros a lot by using components compiled for 3.1. Most tools work. Again I should know because I certainly longest involved with aros 68k, long before others jumped the train..[/quote] A pat in the back for yourself then! [quote name=OlafSch post=5611]Again if you think that bad Pixie, what are you doing still here? Honestly i do not really understand it[/quote] What's your problem? That I speak of my experience? How many do you think that try AROS and move along.. since you know all the stuff for being so long perhaps instead of aiming at me you could help clarify I guess, instead of aiming at those who doesn't do cheer leading enough. Perhaps the idea you pass is that if you do not cheer lead enough around here there's no use for you to be here, I guess...
Responded in MOS Ambient
O
OlafSch 16-06-2024 10:25, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
@Pixie How much is your experience on Scalos? It does not sound like having very much I did more with Magellan in the past but currently I do more with Scalos.. Most you can do with Magellan, you can also do with Scalos, but different. On 68k I can extend aros a lot by using components compiled for 3.1. Most tools work. Again I should know because I certainly longest involved with aros 68k, long before others jumped the train.. Again if you think that bad Pixie, what are you doing still here? Honestly i do not really understand it
Responded in MOS Ambient
A
Amiwell79 16-06-2024 09:54, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
I recently became a retro user, but I still focus on my AROS distribution if it can still be helpful For example, I really like MagicWB
Responded in MOS Ambient
pixie
pixie 16-06-2024 08:36, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
[quote name=OlafSch post=5601]@OlafSch - Pixie, fortunately hardly anyone propably reads this strange discussions here so you and amigasystem do not do much harm to Aros, What a nonsense. Only a short comment a lot of 3.1 software works on Aros 68k, I MUST know that[/quote] I never talked about about if it run or not... [quote name=OlafSch post=5601]do not spread nonsense, it nerves. You both are downtalking Aros, expecially the 68k branch. How can we persuade people to use and support Aros if even people claiming to be supporter are downtalking it in public.[/quote] Perhaps if you rely on using Opus 5, Scalos experience is not that great, or Wanderer. You might like or not but i will repeat it again, simple wb31+ aminet tools put it to shame, there's a lot of hassle involved but there's also a lot of distro that provide those features in one place (amiga system, aiab, amikit...) and I know there's not much of man power behind AROS, surely I am not blamming those... [quote name=OlafSch post=5601]And of course Aros 68k is much more modern than 3.1. 3.1 is from 1992, a time without internet and even without supporting graphic cards. Of course you can add features like themeing, USB, 24bit supports with datatypes, RTG, network stack and so on that you have on Aros 68k...[/quote] Which was what I said, I was never talking about a clean installation, but I can tell you that having had installed many of those utilities/commodities/tools it had a lot of functionality to the WB 31 that I'd wished AROS had. These utilities still belong to WB3.1 and extend its functionality and some were released way past 3.9, you can get them up till 2021 not that long ago... it ain't me stuck in 1992 you know. [quote name=OlafSch post=5601]Hardcore retro-user would in any case never use Aros whatever it offers and even if it would be 100% compatible. That is about emotions, "the name" and inheriting from original sources.[/quote] Which obviously sucks, always had... and they're shooting themselves in the foot by doing so, we could have had a free implementation long time ago had not been for this...
Responded in MOS Ambient
pixie
pixie 16-06-2024 08:22, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
[quote name=pixie post=5605]@pixie - [quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5602]If you write this you show that you have little experience of Amiga systems, the Core and no native OS 3.9 applications can run on OS 3.1 this is because OS 3.9 uses ReAction, and many other innovations introduced with OS 3.9.[/quote] I see, when i search for aminet i almost got overwhelmed by the search results! :D [quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5602]OS 3.9 completely updated many parts of the operating system, including the addition of support for large hard disks, a much improved Workbench, an updated printing subsystem, new GUI engine and preferences, an improved data type system, a new Shell, and many other things [/quote] Most of which are already met through a search on the aminet for wb31. [quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5602]Try on OS 3.1 to run something from the OS3.9 CD, nothing will work!!![/quote] There's not much more softwore for it, now is there? ;) [quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5602]AROS 68k is more modern because it will run on modern hardware, OS 3.1 will never do it, get over it![/quote} Lol, how many gfx card support, network cards support exists for amiga and how many support is there for this modern aros 68k you talk about? You talk in the future tense regarding 68k line? lol
Responded in MOS Ambient
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 16-06-2024 06:55, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
OlafSch, AROS 68k and AROS x86 are basically the same, so the same capabilities, you probably don't use AROS x86! Of course at the moment there is no new hardware that supports "Native" AROS 68k in a full and properly exploiting way, but that doesn't mean it will exist in the future. On your Aros Vision can you use Network Prefs native AROS? can you take advantage of Native Video Cards ? can you run a Browser like OWB ? , you can install AROS from CD (InstallAROS) ? can you see Video at HQ resolutions, these are some things that AROS x86 does and that AROS 68k could also do ! Of course, mixing AROS 68k with old OS3 will never do these things!
Responded in MOS Ambient
O
OlafSch 16-06-2024 06:43, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
@Amigasystem "AROS 68k is more modern because it will run on modern hardware," Do you here mean Aros X86 or Aros 68k?
Responded in MOS Ambient
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 16-06-2024 06:37, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
[quote name=pixie post=5600]@pixie In which way is OS31 is prehistoric? What does OS3.9 brings that OS31+ software released on aminet is lacking? Further more, what software runs on 3.9 or 3.2 that doesn't on 3.1? .[/quote] If you write this you show that you have little experience of Amiga systems, the Core and no native OS 3.9 applications can run on OS 3.1 this is because OS 3.9 uses ReAction, and many other innovations introduced with OS 3.9. OS 3.9 completely updated many parts of the operating system, including the addition of support for large hard disks, a much improved Workbench, an updated printing subsystem, new GUI engine and preferences, an improved data type system, a new Shell, and many other things In addition, OS 3.9 added many extra features such as Amidock, media players, PPC plugins, TCP stack, etc. Even if you install Classact or 3.1+ on OS 3.1 you will never have full compatibility with OS 3.9, even OS 3.2 has added ReAction in the system but has reduced functionality. With BB2/3/4 there were other improvements not supported by OS3.1, see libraries, system files and more. Try on OS 3.1 to run something from the OS3.9 CD, nothing will work!!! AROS 68k is more modern because it will run on modern hardware, OS 3.1 will never do it, get over it! Regarding the incompatibility of OS 3.1 software with AROS 68k (Many Guru), would you like me to make a list even though it would take pages and pages of the forum! instead of writing inaccuracies you should do some tests! @OlafSch Who has spoken ill of AROS 68k? Do you read my speeches? ,
Responded in MOS Ambient
O
OlafSch 16-06-2024 05:14, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
Pixie, fortunately hardly anyone propably reads this strange discussions here so you and amigasystem do not do much harm to Aros, What a nonsense. Only a short comment a lot of 3.1 software works on Aros 68k, I MUST know that do not spread nonsense, it nerves. You both are downtalking Aros, expecially the 68k branch. How can we persuade people to use and support Aros if even people claiming to be supporter are downtalking it in public. And of course Aros 68k is much more modern than 3.1. 3.1 is from 1992, a time without internet and even without supporting graphic cards. Of course you can add features like themeing, USB, 24bit supports with datatypes, RTG, network stack and so on that you have on Aros 68k as default but that needs both a lot of configuration and in some cases even licensing third-party software. Also yes zune is not 100% comptabiel to MUI 3.8 but there are not many programs relevant today not working. Only iBrowse comes to my mind. I could name you a lot of tools with MUI GUI that work. Hardcore retro-user would in any case never use Aros whatever it offers and even if it would be 100% compatible. That is about emotions, "the name" and inheriting from original sources.
Responded in MOS Ambient
pixie
pixie 16-06-2024 04:13, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
[quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5591]The problems with VisualPrefs and Birdie are "only" found on OS 3.2 RTG, try to start it several times and open GUI, you will notice that the colours will change, with AfA OS this does not happen, unfortunately with OS3.2 AfA OS is not supported anymore ![/quote] Not an issue then, I am not talking on WB32. Don't use it, probably never will due to the legal mess it's in, [quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5591]OS31 is prehistoric, AROS 68k is a modern system that needs to grow, it has the same structure and power as AROS x86, it just needs modern hardware, AROS 68k Native is not suitable for Amiga hardware or boards like Vampire, in fact it is recommended for WinUAE[/quote] In which way is OS31 is prehistoric? What does OS3.9 brings that OS31+ software released on aminet is lacking? Further more, what software runs on 3.9 or 3.2 that doesn't on 3.1? What are the OS functionalities missing which allow all those better and more modern programs? What are those better programs and how they make os31 programs to seem ancient? What's there's more to it then start the programs thereafter? We could say that wanderer is in every way ancient comparing to the setup I have (all os31 add ons available on aminet). What AROS for that matter brings to the table when it didn't even reached 3.1 level? I have my 3.1 setup way more functional then pretty much every other setup out there, based on 3.1+aminet alone. The only thing I think it lacks is arexx ports for Workbench. In your opinion AROS 68k is a modern system because it uses the same solutions used for far much beffier system, it doesn't make much sense to me. In which way is AROS modern? Is it because it has an HAL? [quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=5591] If I have to use ApolloOS or Caffeine which are Amiga based, I prefer to use OS 3.9 BB4 + AfA OS which is modern and much more powerful and qualitative. The latest version of ApolloOS is only AROS (stripped) based with a little bit of OS3![/quote] Again, we have an OS in form of ApolloOS which as you say is AROS(stripped) my question is, does it run less AmigaOS programs due to this? If it doesn't is it really stripped? I would say it actually run more Amiga programs, due to the use of full MUI... so running it stripped made it to run more amiga programs I say it's a win, specially for someone who is releasing hardware to run amigaos programs/games.
Responded in MOS Ambient
A
Amiwell79 15-06-2024 13:40, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
want to create an OS from scratch but it's still very immature
Responded in MOS Ambient
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 15-06-2024 13:28, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
If it is not that one, it is this one, which is older: https://www.apollo-computer.com/downloads.php https://www.arosworld.org/infusions/forum/attachments/apolloos_1.jpg
Responded in MOS Ambient
A
Amiwell79 15-06-2024 13:05, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
ApolloOS included in the vampire cannot be distributed, the os you showed is an old version and maybe yes, compared to the os that is bundled with the vampire, the software for os 3 works well
Responded in MOS Ambient
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 15-06-2024 10:17, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
ApolloOS is only compatible with a few OS3.1 applications and does not support anything from OS 3.9, that is why my AROS One 68k is exclusively native AROS 68k and that makes it stable for itself and not for OS Amiga. Amiga today is no longer a state-of-the-art computer, but just a toy for playing games, nothing more
Responded in MOS Ambient
A
Amiwell79 15-06-2024 10:02, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
ApolloOS isn't mature yet, I had a Vampire and everything except compatibility with OS 3 software At least I tried to install something, but nothing, just problems AROS 68k could work well even on systems equipped with Pistorm, which does 2000 mips
Responded in MOS Ambient
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 15-06-2024 08:04, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
The problems with VisualPrefs and Birdie are "only" found on OS 3.2 [b] RTG[/b], try to start it several times and open GUI, you will notice that the colours will change, with AfA OS this does not happen, unfortunately with OS3.2 AfA OS is not supported anymore ! OS31 is prehistoric, AROS 68k is a modern system that needs to grow, it has the same structure and power as AROS x86, it just needs modern hardware, AROS 68k Native is not suitable for Amiga hardware or boards like Vampire, in fact it is recommended for WinUAE If I have to use ApolloOS or Caffeine which are Amiga based, I prefer to use OS 3.9 BB4 + AfA OS which is modern and much more powerful and qualitative. The latest version of ApolloOS is only AROS (stripped) based with a little bit of OS3!
Responded in MOS Ambient
pixie
pixie 15-06-2024 07:41, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
Under the hood where it matters it is AROS from what I understand, you have AmigaOS prefs programs as shown, but that doesn't make it IMO based on OS3. They run MUI, which gives them access to the full library of MUI software, and there's some coaches with Zune since Zune hasn't achieved 100% implementation. You seem to look at wb3.1 as the past and I hope that AROS to reach its level. Apollo doesn't run in a multiple GHz machine, so you cannot expect that AROS fit all their needs when they have access to optimized software of AmigaOS, sincerely I cannot blame them since AROS 68k has been in the limbo so much... Regarding VP and Birdie being a thing of the past... I have never encountered the problems you had, and in a way, compared to MorphOS and OS4, all the rest is miles away. I expect that someday you will be able to reach a themed in ApolloOS but it have to be speedy enough for their machine, it's not like they have ithe CPU grunt WinUAE provides you with
Responded in MOS Ambient
AMIGASYSTEM
AMIGASYSTEM 15-06-2024 07:19, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
Visualprefs and Birdie are not installed on ApolloOS and I don't think it works, Visualprefs and Birdie are a thing of the past, with RTG screens they create colour variations and artefacts, on AROS Thema Wanderer is modern and Professional, on OS3 instead of Visualprefs it's better to use AfA OS extension (AROS For Amiga). ApolloOS and Caffeine use Peterk's Icon.library is the best choice for Amiga OS and AROS 68k. PeterK also distributes a native version of Icon.library for AROS 68k (uses AROS paths), and it exists thanks to my request for AROS One 68k made to my friend PeterK. Mind you, ApolloOS has changed its OS, once based all on AROS and then a version based OS3, which is the latest ? never understood !
Responded in MOS Ambient
pixie
pixie 15-06-2024 04:12, 1 month ago
Re: MOS Ambient
For me having visualprefs and icon.library would give it the edge over wanderer... Ps- I thought it was already using Peterk's icon library
Responded in MOS Ambient
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