Hello,

I will use this thread to share with you developments around my AROS-related projects. This will give you some insight in what you may and may not expect in coming months. First however I will give you a description of projects I maintain: AROS ABIv11, AROS ABIv0, AxRuntime.

AROS ABIv11
===========

ABIv11 is a code name I have given to my stable branch of AROS for 64-bit Intel and AMD processors. The code name is given to distinguish this version from the in-progress ABIv1 effort in main AROS repository. Stable branch in this context means that if a third party developer builds an application following these rules (https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/blob/master/README.md#backwards-compatibility) today, I commit that the application will be working tomorrow, next month and in a year from now. This is the main place where changes from me and other developers happen.

ABIv11 is hosted in this branch: [url]https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS[/url]
ABIv11 forms a base for the other two projects.

AROS ABIv0
==========

The version of AROS currently in use for 32-bit Intel and AMD processors. If you are using Icaros, Aros One or another distribution, you are most likely running ABIv0 as base system. Most of 3rd party applications available on Aminet or AROS-Archives are compiled for ABIv0.

ABIv0 is hosted in this branch: [url]https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/tree/alt-abiv0[/url]
ABIv0 "sits" on top of ABIv11. Most of the changes that are introduced to ABIv11, will eventually be flow to ABIv0 as well without additional effort from initial developers.


AxRuntime
=========

This is a set of Linux libraries that allows re-compilation of Amiga/AROS application into a native Linux application. More information is available here: [url]https://axrt.org/more[/url]

AxRuntime is hosted in this branch: [url]https://github.com/deadw00d/AROS/tree/alt-runtime[/url]
AxRuntime "sits" on top of ABIv11. Most of the changes that are introduced to ABIv11, will eventually be flow to AxRuntime as well without additional effort from initial developers.

A short update from me on the plan (20230505):

1) Synchronize code bases between repositories and release new version of ABIv11 [[b]DONE[/b]]
2) Release first stable version of IntuitionWM
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to newer common codebase

The work on IntuitionWM will mostly likely start somewhere in May.

The long term horizon remains unchanged:

"On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime. I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to:
1) develop a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux and
2) develop an emulator that will allow running AROS 32-bit programs under 64-bit AROS.

Once all these things are in place, we will have a Linux-native desktop (Scalos) and ability to run AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing distributions could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users, enabling a gradual migration from 32-bit to 64-bit.

For people preferring native AROS we will also have ability to use ~80% of the existing software base on 64-bit AROS, which then is an enabler to transition to 64-bit base system."

Hello,

Another update from me on the plan:

1) Synchronize code bases between repositories and release new version of ABIv11 [b][DONE][/b]
2) Release first stable version of IntuitionWM [ON HOLD]
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to newer common codebase [b][DONE][/b]

As you can see I put on hold work on IntuitionWM for now. It is still planned, but will happen at later date. This allows giving more focus on updating ABIv0 to ABIv11 code base, which is a first step towards migration to 64-bit.

The short term items look as follows:

1) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to 20211214 containing switch to new C library
2) Rebuild Odyssey Web Browser using GCC 6.5.0 and new C library

So, the short therm is all about new C library - the same C library that ABIv11 64-bit builds have, which is again a step towards codebase parity and switch to 64-bit. To clarify point 2) this DOES NOT mean update of the rending engine. It will be the same Odyssey we have right now but compiled with newer GCC and using the new C library.

The long term horizon is slightly updated:

"On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime.

I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to:
1) develop an emulator that will allow running AROS 32-bit programs under 64-bit AROS.
2) develop a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux and

Furthermore, ABIv11 64-bit native will be fixed to provide the same level of hardware compatibility on recommended hardware as current ABIv0 32-bit. On AxRuntimem side, the goal will be to develop a working window manager (IntuitionWM) and Linux-native desktop, most likely in form of Scalos.

Once all these things are in place, there will be two development lines available:

For people preferring native AROS we will have ability to use majority the existing 32-bit software base on 64-bit AROS and native 64-bit system working on recommended hardware, which then is an enabler for creation of 64-bit distributions that match current 32-bit distributions in user experience."

For people interested in AxRuntime route we will have a Linux-native desktop and ability to run majority of AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing distributions could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users."

interesting emulator for x64

but can't a layer also be made for 68k applications?

All interesting projects in particular 'Odyssey Web Browser' and the 32-bit AROS emulation on 64-bit AROS.

[quote name=Amiwell79 post=3165]@Amiwell79 - but can't a layer also be made for 68k applications?[/quote]

It is already there - JanusUAE provides that function.

Thank you for all

[quote name=deadwood post=3159]@deadwood - Hello,



I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to:
1) develop an emulator that will allow running AROS 32-bit programs under 64-bit AROS.
2) develop a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux and

Furthermore, ABIv11 64-bit native will be fixed to provide the same level of hardware compatibility on recommended hardware as current ABIv0 32-bit. On AxRuntimem side, the goal will be to develop a working window manager (IntuitionWM) and Linux-native desktop, most likely in form of Scalos.

Once all these things are in place, there will be two development lines available:

For people preferring native AROS we will have ability to use majority the existing 32-bit software base on 64-bit AROS and native 64-bit system working on recommended hardware, which then is an enabler for creation of 64-bit distributions that match current 32-bit distributions in user experience."

For people interested in AxRuntime route we will have a Linux-native desktop and ability to run majority of AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing distributions could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users."[/quote]

If I have translated correctly, there will be no future for a Native Distribution, as I have already said I have little Linux experience, this would not allow me to service AROS One, furthermore I would have difficulty updating my Distribution as I do not use Linux, with the Native/VM it takes me a few minutes to update and test.

[quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=3465]@AMIGASYSTEM
If I have translated correctly, there will be no future for a Native Distribution,
[/quote]
deadwood did not mention anything about native AROS distributions. That also includes not stating anything about the future of native distributions.

[quote]
as I have already said I have little Linux experience,
[/quote]
In deadwood's vision you are not required to have any Linux experience if you do not want to.

[quote]
this would not allow me to service AROS One,
[/quote]
You can still have/maintain your AROS One distribution, as you are used to, it is only to be deployed in another way (and even that could be adjusted to meet requirements, though I would imagine such support to have low(er) priority).

[quote]
furthermore I would have difficulty updating my Distribution as I do not use Linux, with the Native/VM it takes me a few minutes to update and test.[/quote]
You can still use your old ways of managing your distribution(s).

In the end it is just software that resides on a file-system and the only things required is to copy the required files over (the new way of deployment).

It makes things like deploying a distribution (even) simpler imho.

At least that is my understanding of deadwoods vision: To get rid of the requirement to always must have (supported) native hardware in order to be able to run AROS. And that is all AXRT/linux hosted will do from an (further) uninformed perspective.

OK thanks!

I noticed my reply was focused on the AxRT bits.

Please also notice this particular comment from deadwood about native:

[quote name=AMIGASYSTEM post=3465]@AMIGASYSTEM - [quote name=deadwood post=3159]@deadwood - For people preferring native AROS we will have ability to use majority the existing 32-bit software base on 64-bit AROS and native 64-bit system working on recommended hardware, which then is an enabler for creation of 64-bit distributions that match current 32-bit distributions in user experience."
[/quote]

That means that native will still be supported and with that you can still use the 'old' way of distributing AROS one (or any other native AROS distribution for that matter).

Something that will change, at least that is the objective, is that deadwood tries to open up the path to transition from 32-bit to 64-bit, which would also apply to/for native AROS. If AROS one is not ready for that now then you would have enough time to consider that transition or make the decision to stick to/with 32-bit.

If the future software is 64Bit, then AROS One will adapt, what is important is that it can always be used in Native/VM

To answer questions on path forward:

There will be two paths: a Native 64-bit one and an AxRuntime 64-bit one.

OK, thank you, the translation had led me to understand something else!

Hello,

Another update from me on the plan:

1) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to 20211214 containing switch to new C library [b][DONE][/b]
2) Rebuild Odyssey Web Browser using GCC 6.5.0 and new C library [b][DONE][/b]

These have been intensive two months, but we are finally pass that milestone!

Next actions to undertake are:

1) Release 64-bit version of Odyssey Web Browser for AROS, Linux and Windows
2) Implement first prototype of 32-bit-under-64-bit emulator for AROS
3) Release new version of ABIv0 refreshed to 20221221 codebase

With first item, I want to bring Odyssey to the level of stability that allows me to use it for everyday surfing of Amiga-related sites while continue using my main Linux Mint system for everything else. Any improvements that I will introduce will also be available to 32-bit version of Odyssey, so you may expect a small update there as well. With the second item, the emulator prototype, it's really the first steps to see what is needed and how to design the solution so that it takes least amount of work while supporting ~80% of existing third party 32-bit software.

The long term horizon stays unchanged:

"On a longer horizon, there will be a lot of work related to ABIv0 and AxRuntime.

I want to update ABIv0 to be based on latest ABIv11 source code. This will be an enabler to:
1) develop an emulator that will allow running AROS 32-bit programs under 64-bit AROS.
2) develop a version of AxRuntime that is capable of running ABIv0 32-bit programs on top of Linux and

Furthermore, ABIv11 64-bit native will be fixed to provide the same level of hardware compatibility on recommended hardware as current ABIv0 32-bit. On AxRuntime side, the goal will be to develop a working window manager (IntuitionWM) and Linux-native desktop, most likely in form of Scalos.

Once all these things are in place, there will be two development lines available:

For people preferring native AROS we will have ability to use majority the existing 32-bit software base on 64-bit AROS and native 64-bit system working on recommended hardware, which then is an enabler for creation of 64-bit distributions that match current 32-bit distributions in user experience."

For people interested in AxRuntime route we will have a Linux-native desktop and ability to run majority of AROS ABIv0 programs (32-bit), AROS ABIv11 programs (64-bit) and AxRuntime-recompiled programs (64-bit). This way existing distributions could be re-created using Linux as a base without loosing existing functionality for users."

many thanks Deadwood

Wow,Everything sounds very exciting!

[quote name=mattson62 post=4090]@mattson62 - Wow,Everything sounds very exciting![/quote]

As it should be

deadwood do you want to make an emulator integrated into the system?