@ASiegel thanks for your input. I respectfully disagree: planning something together in a sprint makes things more focused, and having a scrum master who takes care of coordination ensures things stay on track. It gives Devs more freedom. Having a board and a sprint is ALWAYS beneficial when getting together to plan something. It does not matter whether it is private or professional. I renovated my whole house using Kanban. I assure you we were way ahead of schedule and had saved quite some money by coordinating well. We might use daily standups. We might not. We might use Scrum. We might use Kanban. This is something that @deadwood and I and Jacadcaps (should he be willing to join) will agree on during the planning phase. It will be a model that all those INVOLVED have agreed on. If Jacadcaps and Deadwood decide that they can do this without any of my help, then I will be fine with that, too. Respectfully, I believe what we need now is constructive help - not any non-constructive discussion. This community requires an updated browser, and both @deadwood and I are willing to invest time (and, in my case, also money) to get us there. I would appreciate help from all those who are eager to contribute in any way. I would also appreciate those who do not actively contribute to let us do it our way. Thank You. I have sent the email to Jacadcaps. Let's hope he is in. Otherwise, we will have to look for an alternative.

[quote name=pikewerfer post=5623]I will create a sprint board with the epic (port Wayfarer to Aros), so that we can then define stories in our meeting of things we need to do/get done.[/quote] Do you think either Jacek or Krzysztof would need someone else to write JIRA tickets so they stay aware of what needs to be done? Not to sound snarky but I have to assume they probably didn't do daily stand ups in front of a mirror when they created Wayfarer for MorphOS or Odyssey v1.25 for AROS. Making hobby projects more like day jobs by adding the usual administrative overhead (and annoyances) but [u]without[/u] the same level of financial compensation is not necessarily a way to success. If the plan was to hire talent outside this community, then more detailed planning would be required. However, the discussed "knowledge transfer" would depend on Krzysztof volunteering a significant amount of his free time to train developers with no intrinsic interest in AROS. This would be time that could be spent on improving AROS instead. Plus, there would likely be all sorts of inefficiencies (language barriers, vastly different time zones) that complicate matters. This is in addition to the fact that not every developer out there is suited to work on a project like a web browser.

@deadwood - well, I know Jacek, the developer of Wayfarer. I can ask him whether he would be willing to collaborate with deadwood and myself to set up a roadmap to port Wayfarer to Aros and then keep updating it for Aros. I agree, it would be easier and less work to port Wayfarer than to update OWB. However, Jacek is a pragmatist and his priority will always be MorphOS. We would not only need to push the effort to port but then also continue to support him to keep the port alive, otherwise he WILL drop the port again. Here is what I will do. I will take the lead in this: I will contact Jacadcaps (Jacek) and ask him if he would be willing. If jacadcaps agrees, I will organize a video call with deadwood, jacadcaps, me (deadwood, let me know if I should include anyone else). I will create a sprint board with the epic (port Wayfarer to Aros), so that we can then define stories in our meeting of things we need to do/get done. Should we decide to include a third dev, I will ask for bounty, collect, recruit, and include that dev into the board, and assign stories to him. I would also create any follow-up meetings that we decide are necessary. @deadwood - I will send you a pm with my email address so we can better coordinate this.

Having Wayfarer would cover the 'needing regular updating' requirement - i'd say definitely woth a contribution of $100. Cheers, Nigel.

A few years ago, I received some responses from the Wayfarer programmer, and he said that he doesn't know Aros, but if someone helps him, he can bring it to his browser

thank you deadwood for your imput

@pikewerfer If you are willing to take a lead on this, I'd suggest a different approach. Instead of updating Webkit engine in OWB, which is now almost 10 years old, pay the developer of Wayfarer to port it to AROS. In both cases there are some necessary updates in AROS, like a newer version of GCC, but in my opinion porting an existing up-to-date browser to AROS in an order of magniture easier task than updating Webkit engine from 10-years old version. Additionally, supporting current Wayfarer developer could motivate him to keep the browser updated for both MorphOS and AROS. What I can commit to in such project is: - onboard the developer to AROS development process - be available to answer questions about internals of AROS and help in general with development topics - update some of the needed components (like the compiler) Details would have to be discussed between me and the developer.

I think an updated OWB Browser would be great. I'm willing to donate up to $100 USD for that. If we can find enough donors with interest in the updated browser then we will have enough.

[quote name=pikewerfer post=5563] (snip) 8. pay the dev for his freelance work - also, keep up the relations, since we might need him to update the browser in the following year, every year (which would then be less work and lower budget need) (snip) .[/quote] I think this is the key point - it's not so good having a fully working browser that six months later is outdated (just look at the pace at which which Wayfarer updates have to be released). However a new browser is put together, it needs to be able to be quickly and easily updated to the latest version of Webkit (assuming the browser is based on this). Cheers, Nigel.

I would propose a bounty on power2people and wouldn't wait long to collect the necessary money, since you can always find a deadwood programmer who is available to help

There would also be this website where in the past we collected money for various projects https://power2people.org/

Try talking to Deadwood, the OWB sources are free You can collect the money, and you can open a small website explaining everything

As I said, I can find another programmer to work full-time on this. We need Deadwood for the knowledge transfer, preferably for the standups so he can guide the new programmer. If he agrees, we can roll. If he does not, we are blocked. And we would need to raise the money. I would chip in some money, too, naturally. :-) I would recommend a repay bounty: we set a goal, and if we meet it, we go. If we fail, all donations go back to whoever donated them.

You can find Deadwood here https://arosworld.org/infusions/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1114&rowstart=20&pid=5519#post_5519

I think that support from Deadwood would be possible, but we need to find another programmer It's not in his plans to update OWB

Okay then. So here is what we would need to do: 1. find a developer in e.g. Nepal (I can do that) 2. set him up with hardware (x86) with Aros One installed (I can do that) 3. create a JIRA board with an Epic (update OWB webkit browser to today's standards) (I can do that) 4. set up a Knowledge Transfer session with the new and the current dev (we would need deadwood!) 4. create stories/tasks for the Epic that will get us there (we would also need deadwood in that meeting!) 5. Set up three standup sprints every week (15 minutes) to discuss issues and progress (I can set them up, but others would need to participate to help the dev stay on track) 6. Each sprint is two weeks - after two weeks, we go live with a new version of OWB (we would need to discuss how to publish those so people can download and test each new beta version) 7. final release after $x months (once again, we need an estimate from deadwood how much time one dedicated dev would need for completion of the epic) 8. pay the dev for his freelance work - also, keep up the relations, since we might need him to update the browser in the following year, every year (which would then be less work and lower budget need) The question is, can we commit to that? We need the current OWB dev to be involved, and we need to have the money. If deadwood says this would be 3 months of work for a dev that works on this 40 hours a week, then we would need to raise about 5-6k USD. We would probably need to pay something after each sprint, so every two weeks. Is deadwood in this forum? Can someone contact him? Would he commit to something like that? If yes, first obstacle removed. We would need him for at least 1 or 2 KT sessions (one hour each) and we would ideally like to have him in the standups (15 minutes 3 times a week). Second obstacle: Can we raise that much money? Who would collect it and pay the guy? I mean, I can do that - we can have some video calls, I can identify myself, and I can set up the whole thing. But perhaps you guys already have something in place? Would make things easier.

[quote name=pikewerfer post=5554]@pikewerfer - OK, try again: Being a long-time Scrum Product Owner, I might be able to help. I know a few dev teams I have worked with for quite some time. Would we be able to raise a bounty for an up-to-date browser? If so, I might be able to convince one of those devs to help us out.[/quote] You could definitely count me in for an updated OWB bounty! By the way, I do use AROS as my 'daily driver' but I tend to keep everyting local on the SSD so that's probaby a bit easier than with everything online. I noticed you had a really impressive reange of Miggys at one point (I still have my A500 & a1200); if you still have the software you can run an emulated Amiga using Janus (which has a JIT so actually quite nippy) and it's amazing how productive you can still be with old software such as PageStream and Finalcalc. For YouTube, I find the easiest thing is just to copy the URL, paste it into AmiTube and download a copy. A slight wait for the download but it works reliably. Cheers, Nigel.

To this I cannot answer, I do not know how many users are willing to donate, certainly the whole AROS community would be thrilled and happy if this happened.

OK, try again: Being a long-time Scrum Product Owner, I might be able to help. I know a few dev teams I have worked with for quite some time. Would we be able to raise a bounty for an up-to-date browser? If so, I might be able to convince one of those devs to help us out.

These days there are some problems here on the site, the administrator is fixing them, that may be the problem even though it has never happened to me!