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Prototype of AROS ABIv0 emulator for 64-bit AROS

Last updated on 9 days ago
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 1 month ago
Hello Everyone,

Another update from me. As mentioned last time, right now the main focus is on enabling loading 32-bit libraries under emulator. The general approach is to re-use as many as possible of 32-bit libraries directly while emulating only the minimal needed set. The reason is quite simple: writing emulation code takes time and is prone to have bugs and incompatibilities that need to be found and fixed.

So far it is clear that following libraries will have to be emulated: exec, dos, intuition, graphics, cybergraphics and layers. Following libraries can potentially be used as-is: aros, asl, autoinit, commodities, coolimages, crt, diskfont, gadtools, icons, iffp**** keymap, locale, m, muimaster, stdlib, utility, workbench.

Attached is a screen shot of debug log of libraries being opened when starting up 32-bit ABIv0 calculator program. So far opening of all libraries has not yet completed - this is current work in progress.

If anyone one is interested in details how the prototypes is coded, you can find the source code here:

https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA
retrofaza, miker1264, ntromans, aha, G-linx, Argo
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Amiwell79Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
Great DeadwoodSmile
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
Good work !
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miker1264Software Dev
Posted 1 month ago
It's a lot of work doing what you are doing. But it is much appreciated. Thank you for improving AROS. It's getting better every day! Smile
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
deadwood, the x86 emulator built into the 64 system, will it be able to run all standard "x86" software, or only those compiled with C library ?
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 1 month ago
The objective is that it will run both software compiled with GCC as well as software for other languages, like Holywood or Pascal. My expectation is that around 80% of software found on AROS Archives users will be able to use under 64-bit AROS. The remaining 20% will either have to be re-compiled to 64-bit or won't be available in worst case.
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miker1264Software Dev
Posted 1 month ago
deadwood

Do you think 32bit Magellan will run on 64bit? Or do you still need to test that? That would be nice.
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 1 month ago
In general the more complex the software the more problematic it will be for the emulator. In case of Magellan I'd give 50/50 chances. Most likely the basic functionalities will work, but more advanced elements might not.
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
Actually Magellan manages the whole system, I think we need to fix many functions, we would need a new 64Bit compilation !
Amiwell79Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
it is a great loss not to be able to use Dopus5
Amiwell79Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
it is still modern and almost indispensable software for an operating system if it can be ported to 64-bit it would be a good thing
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OlafSchJunior Member
Posted 1 month ago

miker1264 wrote:

@miker1264 - deadwood

Do you think 32bit Magellan will run on 64bit? Or do you still need to test that? That would be nice.


Regarding Magellan if that becomes real we should ask the owner before. It is still in development and commercial product on windows, we got the permission and sources for the old version on amiga and related platforms but nobody thought that it could run on a still commercial platform like linux. To be 100% on safe side we should ask before. The amiga version is from 1998 so I assume not a problem.
Edited by OlafSch on 22-03-2024 10:34, 1 month ago
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OlafSchJunior Member
Posted 30 days ago
I sent this message to GPSoft (DOpus(

years ago we got the permission and source code to use Magellan DOpus on Amiga. Thank you again for that. There is a recent development where I wanted to ask you if you are ok with it. On Aros Deadwood is mergin Linux and Aros so that Aros software could be compiled to real linux binaries and run on Linux as Linux apps and sources be a mixture between aros and linux. All 64bit and even all 32bit aros binaries shall run on linux too without recompiling . It is in my view a real cool and promising project.

If you are interested in further informations:

https://www.axrt....

and https://www.arosw.../index.php

here expecially discussion about "Prototype...". Here people asked if it would be possible to get magellan desktop, something I would like too because I love it because of the flexibility. But I wanted to ask you before it is ok for you if the (old amiga based) magellan would run on linux.

Answer:
Yes that’s ok to use this on Linux. You just need to ensure that there’s an aknowledgement of the orioginal developers and reference to our current web site – GPSoft.com.au

So they are ok with it
Edited by OlafSch on 23-03-2024 04:45, 30 days ago
retrofaza, Amiwell79, pixie, aha, mattson62, Argo, deadwood, miker1264
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 28 days ago
Hi All,

The emulator reached today first major milestone. All 32-bit libraries needed to run ABIv0 Calculator are loaded and Calculator is now able to open it's window directly under 64-bit AROS. This is a native 64-bit AROS window so there should be full interaction between windows of programs running under emulation and native 64-bit programs. A user should not notice he is running a 32-bit program.

Some technical notes:
Loading libraries was problematic at first, but after adding some needed structure, they started loading mostly on their own, which was very positive as it means less work for me.

The part that I'm focusing now turned out however to be more complex and harder than I expected. The objective is now to implement "proxy" graphics.library and intuition.library that will take 32-bit programs calls and "forward" them to native 64-bit libraries, so that 32-bit programs render graphics and gadgets in integrated way.
Argo, G-linx, pixie, mmartinka, retrofaza, miker1264, ntromans, Amiwell79, OlafSch, Farox
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AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 28 days ago
Great work deadwood, will the 32Bit software in emulation keep its speed, or will it be slower ?
Amiwell79Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 28 days ago
Thank youSmile
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 28 days ago

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

@AMIGASYSTEM - Great work deadwood, will the 32Bit software in emulation keep its speed, or will it be slower ?


It will keep it's speed.
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 28 days ago
deadwood, about Dopus4, the 64Bit version did not work well, I hope the 32Bit version will work !
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 25 days ago
.
Edited by deadwood on 28-03-2024 06:09, 25 days ago
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deadwoodAROS Dev
Posted 25 days ago
Hello,

Emulator reached a point where it can successfully run ABIv0 calculator - check the attached video.

As you can see, the 32-bit calculator is integrated with other 64-bit programs so as a user you don't really know that you are running a 32-bit application. Prototype implementation of "proxy" graphics.library and intuition.library is proceeding and while there are some caveats around message passing, so far no blocker problem has been found.

I also defined a checklist of tests needed to be completed before a final decision on emulator can be made:

1) Test a recent program written in C using new C library (Calculator) [DONE]
2) Test an old, 3rd party program written in C using old C library (ZuneARC) [IN PROGRESS]
3) Test program written in Hollywood
4) Test program written in Pascal
5) Test emulator under native AROS x86_64 and confirm it can work with native kernel
6) Test emulator under AxRuntime and confirm ABIv0 programs can be run directly on Linux/Windows

Emulator sources are available here: https://github.com/deadwood2/AROS/tree/AoA/workbench/tools/AoA

If you are a developer and you would be interested in contributing to emulator in future, please send me an email or PM on the forums.
Edited by deadwood on 30-03-2024 01:56, 23 days ago
pixie, ntromans, retrofaza, miker1264, G-linx
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Users who participated in discussion: magorium, aha, deadwood, AMIGASYSTEM, pixie, Amiwell79, miker1264, OlafSch, mattson62
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