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MOS Ambient

Last updated on 1 month ago
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ntromansJunior Member
Posted 1 month ago

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

@AMIGASYSTEM - In fact, I am objective even if I make many enemies, today's Amiga users are just game nostalgics, nobody cares about the operating system anymore, this because it is considered useless for what an OS should do today.


Very true - it currently all seems to be about hardware hacks on the classics, Yes, the harware was innovative for its time but for me it always was the elegane and efficiency of the OS that made the Amiga (and hence AROS) special for me.

A friend of mine has a theory that when you hit a certian age (as we who had Amigas ifirst time around) you start to want to revisit that younger version of yourself, hence the all the nostalga. I guess many of these people never really used the Amiga for productivity, just for games. Me, I got my first A500 for DTP and haven't ever stopped ever since through my A1200, WinUAE (on late 90s Windows laptops - a painful experience) and then to AROS. Oh well, maybe if more people make use of AROS on their classics they will eventually find their way to using it on a machine made in this century,,,

Cheers,
Nigel.

P.S. on the subject of AROS on classic, I tried it about 5 years ago on my '060 A1200 and Wanderer was very slow, I had to use Wokbook to have any useability. Has this improved at all of late, or is that why an alterntive desktop (Scalos/Magellan) may be used to speed things up?
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OlafSchMember
Posted 1 month ago
@Nigel

regarding your questions about Wanderer and other desktops. As far as I know Wanderer still is very slow on real hardware if booting at all. I developed aros vision based on magellan desktop but to my shame did not yet test it myself. A older version of aros vision worked quiet well (based on magellan). So yes in my view both magellan and scalos should work on powerful hardware like 060.
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
I would say that there is not much difference between Wanderer, Magellan and Scalos, theoretically Wanderer should be faster on AROS 68k than the others since it is native, the problem is that the slowness comes from the native AROS libraries which are "more corpulent" than those of OS3, let me explain.

The various AROS 68k Distributions are an OS3 mix, in these OSes many libraries and system files have been replaced with those of OS3, which is why they are lighter and faster, regardless of whether they use Magellan or Scalos, Wanderer is not used by any of these distributions.

Same thing happens with Vampire, PiStorm if you try to start AfA OS, this is because AfA OS uses AROS libraries which makes OS3 modern and qualitative.

It's about Amiga users who love games, many of them didn't get the chance to play games as kids and out of nostalgia they do it now as adults Smile
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Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
We need to consider that the development of the OS on Classic is ongoing
pixiepixieMember
Posted 1 month ago

ntromans wrote:


P.S. on the subject of AROS on classic, I tried it about 5 years ago on my '060 A1200 and Wanderer was very slow, I had to use Wokbook to have any useability. Has this improved at all of late, or is that why an alterntive desktop (Scalos/Magellan) may be used to speed things up?


You have Apollo OS which it's not that much faster than 060 and it seems to be running well, although it uses SAGA, I guess that if you use it with a set of drivers also optimized for AGA it would bring it to speeds around 3.1.
pixiepixieMember
Posted 1 month ago

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

@AMIGASYSTEM - I know all the Distributions mentioned very well, Apollo OS currently except for the ROM and some applications there is no almost nothing AROS, from ApolloOS list me native AROS system applications, you are unlikely to find any! you will certainly find many native OS3.1 applications, as shown in my screenshot.


I do not have the ApolloOS like you have in your setup, something is wrong with my setup, but it feels miles ahead of aros 68k speedwise, which is good to see, it means it can be improved!

They seem to have picked the apps they liked the best, one of the benefits of aros is that it can run both systems, where on Workbench those aros apps I've tried didn't... as long as they don't came from Workbench 3.1 and are allowed to use it, for me it's all good, with time they should be improving the foundations where it's most needed IMO.

PS- I cannot run the same aros programs because of what it seems to be conflicts between mui and zune, so perhaps that's why they choose to go with some workbench apps instead, still, an OS is not his apps, but the structure where those apps can run.
Edited by pixie on 14-06-2024 16:45, 1 month ago
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago

pixie wrote:

@pixie -

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

@AMIGASYSTEM - I know all the Distributions mentioned very well, Apollo OS currently except for the ROM and some applications there is no almost nothing AROS, from ApolloOS list me native AROS system applications, you are unlikely to find any! you will certainly find many native OS3.1 applications, as shown in my screenshot.


I do not have the ApolloOS like you have in your setup, something is wrong with my setup, but it feels miles ahead of aros 68k speedwise, which is good to see, it means it can be improved!
Of course it is faster, on ApolloOS 'AROS' Themes are disabled, it uses old Glow Icons (very light) and no Graphic Pointer, no graphics in windows etc... see mine screenshot
If ApolloOS does not start for you, it is not a configuration problem, but you are almost certainly using the wrong ROM, and ApolloOS cannot use parts of AROS 68k by deadwood (C library) because they are incompatible with each other.

Quote


PS- I cannot run the same aros programs because of what it seems to be conflicts between mui and zune, so perhaps that's why they choose to go with some workbench apps instead, still, an OS is not his apps, but the structure where those apps can run.

Native OS3.1 software runs well on AROS 68k, on the contrary, AROS 68k applications will never run on OS 3.1 or any other Amiga OS!

AROS 68k = Binary ELF
Amiga OS = Binary Hunk
AMIGASYSTEM attached the following image:
apolloos_3.jpg
pixiepixieMember
Posted 1 month ago
For me having visualprefs and icon.library would give it the edge over wanderer...

Ps- I thought it was already using Peterk's icon library
Edited by pixie on 15-06-2024 04:14, 1 month ago
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
Visualprefs and Birdie are not installed on ApolloOS and I don't think it works, Visualprefs and Birdie are a thing of the past, with RTG screens they create colour variations and artefacts, on AROS Thema Wanderer is modern and Professional, on OS3 instead of Visualprefs it's better to use AfA OS extension (AROS For Amiga).

ApolloOS and Caffeine use Peterk's Icon.library is the best choice for Amiga OS and AROS 68k.

PeterK also distributes a native version of Icon.library for AROS 68k (uses AROS paths), and it exists thanks to my request for AROS One 68k made to my friend PeterK.

Mind you, ApolloOS has changed its OS, once based all on AROS and then a version based OS3, which is the latest ? never understood !
pixiepixieMember
Posted 1 month ago
Under the hood where it matters it is AROS from what I understand, you have AmigaOS prefs programs as shown, but that doesn't make it IMO based on OS3. They run MUI, which gives them access to the full library of MUI software, and there's some coaches with Zune since Zune hasn't achieved 100% implementation.
You seem to look at wb3.1 as the past and I hope that AROS to reach its level. Apollo doesn't run in a multiple GHz machine, so you cannot expect that AROS fit all their needs when they have access to optimized software of AmigaOS, sincerely I cannot blame them since AROS 68k has been in the limbo so much...
Regarding VP and Birdie being a thing of the past... I have never encountered the problems you had, and in a way, compared to MorphOS and OS4, all the rest is miles away.

I expect that someday you will be able to reach a themed in ApolloOS but it have to be speedy enough for their machine, it's not like they have ithe CPU grunt WinUAE provides you with
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
The problems with VisualPrefs and Birdie are "only" found on OS 3.2 RTG, try to start it several times and open GUI, you will notice that the colours will change, with AfA OS this does not happen, unfortunately with OS3.2 AfA OS is not supported anymore !

OS31 is prehistoric, AROS 68k is a modern system that needs to grow, it has the same structure and power as AROS x86, it just needs modern hardware, AROS 68k Native is not suitable for Amiga hardware or boards like Vampire, in fact it is recommended for WinUAE

If I have to use ApolloOS or Caffeine which are Amiga based, I prefer to use OS 3.9 BB4 + AfA OS which is modern and much more powerful and qualitative.

The latest version of ApolloOS is only AROS (stripped) based with a little bit of OS3!
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Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
ApolloOS isn't mature yet, I had a Vampire and everything except compatibility with OS 3 software At least I tried to install something, but nothing, just problems AROS 68k could work well even on systems equipped with Pistorm, which does 2000 mips
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
ApolloOS is only compatible with a few OS3.1 applications and does not support anything from OS 3.9, that is why my AROS One 68k is exclusively native AROS 68k and that makes it stable for itself and not for OS Amiga.

Amiga today is no longer a state-of-the-art computer, but just a toy for playing games, nothing more
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Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
ApolloOS included in the vampire cannot be distributed, the os you showed is an old version and maybe yes, compared to the os that is bundled with the vampire, the software for os 3 works well
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
If it is not that one, it is this one, which is older:

https://www.apoll...nloads.php

https://www.arosw...loos_1.jpg
Edited by AMIGASYSTEM on 15-06-2024 13:29, 1 month ago
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Amiwell79Distro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago
want to create an OS from scratch but it's still very immature
pixiepixieMember
Posted 1 month ago

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

The problems with VisualPrefs and Birdie are "only" found on OS 3.2 RTG, try to start it several times and open GUI, you will notice that the colours will change, with AfA OS this does not happen, unfortunately with OS3.2 AfA OS is not supported anymore !

Not an issue then, I am not talking on WB32. Don't use it, probably never will due to the legal mess it's in,

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:

OS31 is prehistoric, AROS 68k is a modern system that needs to grow, it has the same structure and power as AROS x86, it just needs modern hardware, AROS 68k Native is not suitable for Amiga hardware or boards like Vampire, in fact it is recommended for WinUAE


In which way is OS31 is prehistoric? What does OS3.9 brings that OS31+ software released on aminet is lacking? Further more, what software runs on 3.9 or 3.2 that doesn't on 3.1? What are the OS functionalities missing which allow all those better and more modern programs? What are those better programs and how they make os31 programs to seem ancient? What's there's more to it then start the programs thereafter?

We could say that wanderer is in every way ancient comparing to the setup I have (all os31 add ons available on aminet).

What AROS for that matter brings to the table when it didn't even reached 3.1 level? I have my 3.1 setup way more functional then pretty much every other setup out there, based on 3.1+aminet alone. The only thing I think it lacks is arexx ports for Workbench.

In your opinion AROS 68k is a modern system because it uses the same solutions used for far much beffier system, it doesn't make much sense to me. In which way is AROS modern? Is it because it has an HAL?

AMIGASYSTEM wrote:


If I have to use ApolloOS or Caffeine which are Amiga based, I prefer to use OS 3.9 BB4 + AfA OS which is modern and much more powerful and qualitative.

The latest version of ApolloOS is only AROS (stripped) based with a little bit of OS3!

Again, we have an OS in form of ApolloOS which as you say is AROS(stripped) my question is, does it run less AmigaOS programs due to this? If it doesn't is it really stripped? I would say it actually run more Amiga programs, due to the use of full MUI... so running it stripped made it to run more amiga programs I say it's a win, specially for someone who is releasing hardware to run amigaos programs/games.
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OlafSchMember
Posted 1 month ago
Pixie, fortunately hardly anyone propably reads this strange discussions here so you and amigasystem do not do much harm to Aros, What a nonsense. Only a short comment a lot of 3.1 software works on Aros 68k, I MUST know that

do not spread nonsense, it nerves. You both are downtalking Aros, expecially the 68k branch. How can we persuade people to use and support Aros if even people claiming to be supporter are downtalking it in public.

And of course Aros 68k is much more modern than 3.1. 3.1 is from 1992, a time without internet and even without supporting graphic cards. Of course you can add features like themeing, USB, 24bit supports with datatypes, RTG, network stack and so on that you have on Aros 68k as default but that needs both a lot of configuration and in some cases even licensing third-party software. Also yes zune is not 100% comptabiel to MUI 3.8 but there are not many programs relevant today not working. Only iBrowse comes to my mind. I could name you a lot of tools with MUI GUI that work. Hardcore retro-user would in any case never use Aros whatever it offers and even if it would be 100% compatible. That is about emotions, "the name" and inheriting from original sources.
Edited by OlafSch on 16-06-2024 05:48, 1 month ago
AMIGASYSTEMAMIGASYSTEMDistro Maintainer
Posted 1 month ago

pixie wrote:

@pixie

In which way is OS31 is prehistoric? What does OS3.9 brings that OS31+ software released on aminet is lacking? Further more, what software runs on 3.9 or 3.2 that doesn't on 3.1? .


If you write this you show that you have little experience of Amiga systems, the Core and no native OS 3.9 applications can run on OS 3.1 this is because OS 3.9 uses ReAction, and many other innovations introduced with OS 3.9.

OS 3.9 completely updated many parts of the operating system, including the addition of support for large hard disks, a much improved Workbench, an updated printing subsystem, new GUI engine and preferences, an improved data type system, a new Shell, and many other things

In addition, OS 3.9 added many extra features such as Amidock, media players, PPC plugins, TCP stack, etc.

Even if you install Classact or 3.1+ on OS 3.1 you will never have full compatibility with OS 3.9, even OS 3.2 has added ReAction in the system but has reduced functionality.

With BB2/3/4 there were other improvements not supported by OS3.1, see libraries, system files and more.

Try on OS 3.1 to run something from the OS3.9 CD, nothing will work!!!

AROS 68k is more modern because it will run on modern hardware, OS 3.1 will never do it, get over it!

Regarding the incompatibility of OS 3.1 software with AROS 68k (Many Guru), would you like me to make a list even though it would take pages and pages of the forum! instead of writing inaccuracies you should do some tests!

@OlafSch
Who has spoken ill of AROS 68k? Do you read my speeches?


,
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OlafSchMember
Posted 1 month ago
@AMIGASYSTEM

"AROS 68k is more modern because it will run on modern hardware,"

Do you here mean Aros X86 or Aros 68k?
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Users who participated in discussion: AMIGASYSTEM, pixie, ntromans, Amiwell79, miker1264, OlafSch
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